231 – Unlocking Revenue Growth: How PartnerTap is Leading the Co-Selling Revolution

Cassandra Gholston Joins Ultimate Guide to Partnering®

Join us as we dive into partner-led sales with Cassandra Gholston, CEO of PartnerTap, the industry’s leading Ecosystem Co-Selling Platform. Cassandra is a visionary leader who has dedicated her career to driving revenue growth through strategic partnerships. In this episode, she shares her journey from being an enterprise sales rep to founding PartnerTap. This groundbreaking platform empowers companies like HPE, ADP, SAP Concur, and more to maximize their partner ecosystem.

Cassandra discusses the growing importance of co-selling and how automation is revolutionizing partner-led sales in the tech industry. She also delves into innovative sales plays and data-sharing strategies, the transformative power of partnerships in enterprise software, and the key to leading change in co-selling. Finally, learn why co-selling transformation is critical for business success in today’s landscape. Don’t miss this opportunity to learn from a true industry leader and get insights on taking your partnership sales strategy to the next level.

What You’ll Learn From This Episode

0:02 – Co-selling and its growing importance in the industry.

4:44 – Partner-led sales and automation in the tech industry.

11:48 – Partner-led sales plays and data sharing in the tech industry.

17:10 – Sales transformation and partnerships in the enterprise software industry.

22:46 – Leading change and co-selling in organizations.

29:12 – Co-selling transformation and its importance in business.

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Ultimate Partner LIVE – Executive Summit ’24 – Now OPEN!

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This year’s summit promises to be bigger and better. It will be an immersive experience bringing together over 300+ partners across ISVs, LSPs, and SIs. Join us for two days of insightful discussions, hands-on workshops, and unparalleled networking opportunities with industry leaders and Microsoft executives.

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Transcript

Keywords:

Keywords: 

partner, sell, company, talk, organization, playbook, microsoft, customer, spreadsheets, cassandra, work, ecosystem, hosting, leader, transformation, seller, opportunity, teams, drive, people

Transcript (Generated by Otter A.I. – Please Excuse Any Typos) 


Jay McBain 0:02  

Music. Microsoft’s purpose is in service of your purpose. And again, 2024 is the year that partners come out as the leading edge of the spear on finding this buyer intent. You

Vince Menzione 0:13  

show up to every meeting and demonstrate why you are relevant every

Sharon Schoenborn 0:18  

day. I have to force myself to make sure that I’m taking one step ahead in terms of my own learning

Vince Menzione 0:23  

that flywheel success is where you will build momentum, and that momentum will continue, and then you feed into the other systems to say, this is what we did. This is how we did it together. Welcome back to The Ultimate Guide to partnering. I’m Vince benzione, your host, and I’m on a mission to empower every individual, organization and partner to achieve their greatest results through successful partnering. Much of the discussion we’ve had over the last several months has been around the tectonic shifts this decade of the ecosystem, the increasing dominance of the three hyperscalers, the changing buying behavior and effective co selling today I welcome back an industry leader driving the transformation of CO selling as the CEO of partner tap a platform transforming selling. Cas, welcome to the podcast.

Cassandra Gholston 1:12  

Thank you so much. Vince, so good to be here. Cassandra

Vince Menzione 1:14  

golston, so good to have you in the room. You’ve been on the podcast twice now. We’ve known each other for several years. We go back to, I guess it was around 16 or 17.

Cassandra Gholston 1:26  

So I actually looked up yesterday on LinkedIn, the message I sent you back in 2017 2017 about Vince. I love the podcast. I’m going to spend the weekend listening to all your episodes. There weren’t as many that, right? And I want to meet you, and I so long ago, but here you are. We’re in the Boca studio. Boca

Vince Menzione 1:54  

studio, where we recently hosted a live in person event, our executive Summit, and you were up on stage. It

Cassandra Gholston 2:01  

was awesome. Such a great time. That was such a great event to just the really intimate the people that were in the room, and great business leaders,

Vince Menzione 2:13  

incredible leaders. You were part of our executive panel and kicked off the event. We had some incredible conversations that we’re going to continue today.

Cassandra Gholston 2:22  

I’m excited for what’s to come. Well,

Vince Menzione 2:24  

I am as well, and I love watching your trajectory. We’ve been friends now since that time, in fact, we had some early conversations. We started mind melding. We can go on about our journey together, but I love the trajectory that you’ve been on. And you know, you focus in on really the enterprise level. CO selling is what I would say. Like, you have worked with some of the largest organizations. We were at another event earlier this year. You had at&t on stage. I mean, you work with lumen, HP, the biggest brands. In fact, we probably can’t even talk about some of the brands that you’re working with today, and I can go on and on here, but for our viewers and our listeners, and you’ve been on the podcast before, tell us a little bit more about Cassandra partner tap and what the mission that you’re on as an organization. Yeah.

Cassandra Gholston 3:14  

So we founded the company back in 2016 and I feel like in 2016 I knew that CO selling was going to be huge. And I remember telling one of my mentors, I’m I’m leaving, I’m leaving concur, and I’m going to launch this company, and it’s all going to be around co sell. And I remember him saying to me, Cassandra, you know, co sell is only something that we do at concur. Not very many companies actually do this. And so you fast forward from 2016 where, you know, we were building the technology and for a couple of years before we even signed our first enterprise customer. But, you know, from then to now, you know, Jay McBain comes out with his report on the CO sell matrix, co selling software category last December. I mean, it’s, it’s awesome to be part of, you know, this huge transformation that is now taking shape. The market is here. But, yeah, I was running around since 2016 coastal is a thing. It’s going to be huge. And there’s a big opportunity, a big white space. We’re building technology around it. And so, I mean, I’m really proud to say that on that report, I think there was 14 companies we

Vince Menzione 4:44  

were general tech stack, yes, he’s been highlighting and supporting, yeah,

Cassandra Gholston 4:48  

and you know, we were in the top four. We’re the only company female founded, not venture backed. I mean, we we have investors, but not venture investors. Dollars. So it’s just an exciting time. And one of the call outs in the report was the fact that we have some of the largest enterprise customers. So it’s just exciting and a validation to Casandra, back into 2016 to Cassandra now,

Cassandra Gholston 5:20  

so I remember meeting you, or maybe was the first conversation we had before we met. And originally, I think it started as a mobile app, didn’t it? Yes. And I was thinking, you know, I had been at Microsoft, leading the partner organization for nine years. At that point, it just left. And I was thinking, I was thinking back to the spreadsheets and literally trying to do territory analysis, trying to map territories and sellers to sellers and partner managers to partner managers, and trying to work through that process was, it was maddening, I guess is what I would say, right? This was always changing, right? And what I called the Southeast, and you called the southeast were two different things. And where I

Cassandra Gholston 6:00  

sell industries, and you sell geography, nothing,

Cassandra Gholston 6:03  

nothing ever. And as soon as you got a spreadsheet, it was outdated, right? Start the process all over again. And I remember that my PDMS were using spreadsheets to drive that, and it was just driving us all crazy. It was it was never relevant. We were never able to action on it, right? And so

Cassandra Gholston 6:22  

people did and do action on it. It’s just you can’t do it at scale. You can’t do it at scale. I mean, the only reason why we’re sending spreadsheets around is because you do actually get something out of it. Get something, but it is hard, hard work, and who has time for that kind of not well,

Cassandra Gholston 6:44  

and who’s going to maintain the spreadsheets, who’s going to keep it current, right? How many you know we talk about the economic headwinds and the layoffs that go on in organizations in the tech sector, it’s changing constantly, right?

Cassandra Gholston 6:55  

Right? So I think we’re at this pivotal time now, and this is the reason that this has become a category is because, you know the go to market playbook, this direct LED playbook that we’ve all been running, every PE backed company, every publicly traded company. I mean, they all run the same playbook, and in this market at this time, everyone’s realizing it doesn’t work. And everybody is like, what do we do? And so now it’s like, we have to be partner LED. We have to, I mean, these, you think about these large companies, they have these vast ecosystems, channel partners, si ISVs. I mean, they it like massive ecosystems. How do we get these companies working together? Yes, surround that. Surround our buyers and customers. How do we get them to be leading those deals where they have those great, tight relationships, and that journey for a company that the DNA is direct, LED is so hard, but, yeah, the exciting thing for everybody in partnerships is that the playbook, the new playbook, is the partner team actually holds the keys to this new playbook. Yes. So the

Vince Menzione 8:29  

changing and buying behavior we talked about like we’ve seen the, you know, the the end of the cookie is Jay McBain talks right? He talks about the decade of the ecosystem. He was here talking the

Cassandra Gholston 8:39  

23 moments which are gonna go away, gonna go away.

Vince Menzione 8:43  

And then also, you know, getting rid of the old mindset within the organization, the old CRO right, that used modern marketing like Marketo and eliqua and HubSpot, and then relied on an SDR, BDR, and a seller at the end of it, that that, that that playbook goes away, right,

Cassandra Gholston 9:00  

because buyers are getting younger. They don’t trust sales people. I mean, this is, this is the research coming out, you know, from, from Forrester Maria chin and, and so it’s all so there’s the shift right from vendor to partner, and the partner actually oftentimes has that trusted advisor relationship. So

Vince Menzione 9:30  

well, Microsoft got it early, right? So I had it in the DNA of Microsoft. But Microsoft even strong. Look at

Cassandra Gholston 9:36  

that, the most valuable company in the world. Exactly, yes. So everyone’s looking to Microsoft, going, what are they doing? And have little secret to tell events, that even at Microsoft, everybody’s operating on spreadsheets. We’re talking about CO selling. I mean, they have a co sell desk, and this is where, you know, we. Talk a lot about CO sell and CO selling. So co sell being this transaction, this, you know, one and done through marketplace. And CO selling being this verb where it’s an action and it’s top of funnel, you know, where should we be running plays? How do we orchestrate those plays before an opportunity is even created? That’s the future of CO selling could never it’s what we were doing on spreadsheets, yes, or trying to do on spreadsheets. Completely not scalable. They’re the like, it’s hard to drive strategy around that. And so you have these co sell desks, which are extremely reactive, instead of, you know, where we see this heading is with automation. You know, companies like partner tap have come out, you know, and we’ve been around since 2016 building and, you know, enterprise ready for scale. So it’s such an exciting time that we can move these companies from these random acts of CO sell, which we call them. Everyone’s sending spreadsheets around and trying to do this top of funnel activity, and now with automation, with a platform where you can identify, securely, share account, opportunity data, align, drive white space plays, drive up, sell, Cross, sell plays, drive multi partner plays where you’re engaging top of funnel. It’s yeah, that’s, that’s

Vince Menzione 11:47  

you’re talking Yeah, that’s talking ecosystem, which is why we use the term spark the ecosystem.

Cassandra Gholston 11:53  

I love that.

Vince Menzione 12:02  

We’re excited to announce ultimate partner live executive summit october 22 and 23rd in Las Colinas, Texas. We’re bringing back the event that we hosted last year, but in a new facility with state of the art capabilities and live streaming. This is your opportunity to engage with other technology leaders, to learn the what, why and how to achieve your greatest results, partnering with Microsoft and other tech giants, featuring leadership tracks, fireside chats and workshops designed to help you achieve more, the doors are opening next week for Early Bird registration. I’m going to take that. We’re going to talk about the Microsofts and the hyperscalers on their side, they’ve been doing this CO selling activity, but it’s a one to one, it’s been right, and this is where I believe partner taps like, this is your acre of diamonds. And I’ll share my point of view on it is that it’s one to one, it’s a Microsoft seller, and then maybe an ISV seller or an SI seller. But it’s only, it’s only two organizations working together, right? It’s a much bigger picture than that. We talk about the seven seats at the table. We talk about the buying behavior changing, becoming more consumer like and this is where partner tap plays such an effective role, because you you orchestrate and aggregate all those selling influences in one system, right? And then you could feed it up to a partner center or an ace, right, or Google, right? Tell us more about that, like, how do you? How do you? You talked about this running through and creating these opportunities and kind of working within the ecosystem and bringing it all together

Cassandra Gholston 13:38  

so every company has a CRM system, and no company is going to say, hey, you can have full access to my CRM system. You can see everything. No, no. Security Teams would never go for that. That’s why everyone sends spreadsheets around of account lists. But when you’re talking about top of funnel orchestration for the good of the customer, right? We have a secure platform where you can sync CRM. You can bring your top partners into the system, where they also sync data and then securely share. And in some instances, you know, we see NSPS, for instance, like the that data to them is keys to the castle. You know, they have these close relationships. And so in those instances, it’s like companies can share to them, and they don’t necessarily have to share back until they’re ready to orchestrate plays. So yeah, through this system, you can share data at scale, and each side decides what they want to share. You can have an ecosystem wide view to. Figure out that multi partner sales play and then have people opt in, pre funnel, right, pre opportunity. So I think Microsoft was like, yes, we know what’s in funnel, and that’s what’s running through the CO sell desk today, but the future is we want to drive plays ahead of time. I loved the talk that Aaron feiger, jen Weiss and the other

Vince Menzione 15:30  

Barry, yes, yeah, and and Brian coper and

Cassandra Gholston 15:35  

they talked yesterday about, you know, the sales plays for Microsoft being inside a partner center. Well, every large company has their sales plays defined to really or to really go after and drive massive growth you need to be orchestrating ahead of time. This is partner LED. This is partner led those sales plays, who are the best partners, using data that’s right to determine ahead of time and then have partners agree to opt in to work together

Vince Menzione 16:11  

as a customer, I’m making a decision about solving for a business application. We talked about at our event. We talked about the fact that the decision on the cloud consumption, the cloud commitments, happening at the board level and the CFO and the CEO level, but then in the line of business, I’m saying I need a backup and recovery. I need the security, I need a data protection, I need an SI to pull it all together. And they’re having these conversations. And wouldn’t it be great if instead of bumping into each other in the hallway, the way we normally do in sales calls, yes, we were working together, yes for that common customer and yes, coalescing that solution, which is what I believe partner tap does,

Cassandra Gholston 16:53  

right? I love to yesterday on the panel with Greg Serafin, he did such an eloquent job of really explaining the right co sell, collaborative sales process ahead of the ahead of time. Yes, that was such gold. I’ve never heard anybody that has really done the research and goes, this is what works. And he said, you know, you have these account teams, but the customer truly is only going to listen to two sellers. So that’s right,

Vince Menzione 17:30  

if you have, can’t bring all seven people the same time, and

Cassandra Gholston 17:34  

it’s not just the seven people, right? It’s the product teams, it’s the, you know, the marketing team, it’s all these teams, the solution engineers, right? So having these pre calls, and then who’s gonna lead, right? We all have to agree who leads. So there’s these new, emerging roles that we talk about, and this is why this is such a big transformation? Yeah.

Vince Menzione 18:02  

So it’s change management of the organization, big time, not

Cassandra Gholston 18:05  

just of your organization, of your partner’s organization, because it sells teams and your side sells teams on the partner side. So,

Vince Menzione 18:15  

so how do we get there? What? Tell Tell us more about these, well, leadership roles.

Cassandra Gholston 18:19  

I just think it’s an exciting opportunity for so many consulting firms, right? Like this new playbook goes, goes in, in, in sales teams, the direct sales teams you are now explaining and coaching to the CROs of the future, of how to run this. I mean, this is a hard, hard playbook, but I think back. I mean, before I founded partner tap, I mean, I was one of those sellers, top, top, number one, you know, four years in a row before i i launched only partners, only ever worked with partners like that’s who’s leading the deal. Absolutely, that’s how you have consistency. But what I didn’t realize is that it’s not natural to everybody. There’s this fear of it’s my customer and it’s not your customer, it’s everybody’s customer, and the seller that realizes that it’s not

Vince Menzione 19:24  

your customer, it’s everyone’s customer. Well, it

Cassandra Gholston 19:27  

truly is. It truly is. It’s that security firm, it’s that, you know, whoever’s doing business, but each seller is like, it’s mine, but no, when we’re going and we’re driving business outcomes, both in mid market and enterprise. I mean, these processes are just as complex you’ve got, you’ve got, really, yeah, everybody has, has a piece of the customer, and so we have to come together and figure out who. Actually has the best relationship, that is, who should be driving the deal, right? So may

Vince Menzione 20:05  

not be your company that’s driving the deal. No partner might be a partner of a partner, no,

Cassandra Gholston 20:09  

I mean, even internally, in partner tap, right? We are co selling with our partners. And there are, you know, we are only selling to the enterprise. And, you know, in some instances, yeah, the partner is leading the entire deal, and we have to be okay with taking the back seat. And, you know, being there to support and trusting, yes, interesting, yes, that is CO selling, and in some instances we’re going to be leading and we’re bringing the partners in. But I think, I think one of the most exciting things is, like, for any of these consulting firms, like sales transformation practices, are going to look so different. And the firms, the big firms, the small firms that see this now, we’ve built our own playbook that we are sharing with with our I would love to

Vince Menzione 21:08  

share, I would love to share that with some of our listeners and viewers. Here we do that, yes, absolutely, provide links. Absolutely. We are thrilled to announce our partnership within partner software, the world’s leading provider of partner management technologies, serving over 4 million partners globally in partner excels in delivering cutting edge solutions for partner relationship management and partner marketing automation. Their robust platform offers essential tools like program compliance, tracking, customizable partner journeys and comprehensive business planning. These features Empower partner teams to swiftly transition from program design to achieving maximum value in partner is dedicated to supporting partner ecosystems everywhere and continues to innovate with new modules like analytics studio designed to help track and maximize the ROI of your partner program. For more information, visit impartner.com

Vince Menzione 22:12  

you work with some of the largest we mentioned, some of the I’ll call marquee clients, enterprise clients, big companies like at&t and HPE. What do you see from the best?

Cassandra Gholston 22:22  

It’s so funny. I hear a lot of times in these companies that say these are vintage companies. Like I’ve heard other ISVs that are kind of in the space. They call these companies vintage companies. And I’m like, these are companies that are actually really trying to they are transforming,

Cassandra Gholston 22:42  

they are doing the transformation. Yeah,

Cassandra Gholston 22:43  

they, they all are. And what, what that means is, you’ve got leaders inside that are change agents, right? And, and it’s scary, I think, for people in today’s market to lead change. Because, yeah,

Vince Menzione 23:03  

change is

Cassandra Gholston 23:04  

what if I fail? What if it fails and risking it? And, you know, the days of fail fast and being okay are not so secure, it feels like, but I think if you don’t, if you’re not the change, then your company is just going to be left in the dust. And you can see a massive company go down by the up and comers.

Vince Menzione 23:32  

So what’s required there to drive the change? And I know you’ve used the term co sell, quarterback role?

Cassandra Gholston 23:37  

Yes. So one thing I’ll say about change agent leadership, this is important. You don’t have to be a leader to be a change agent. You have to be willing to learn and do the research, and then you have to be willing to go and take this up to the leadership. So I think there’s a great opportunity for anyone in the organization that wants to go and put their name behind something that is going to, you know, drive big ROI is, you know, leading edge to go and and and talk about CO sell transformation and what these companies are doing. So I’m you don’t just have to be a leader, but, you know, we work with lots of change agents, whether they’re lower level or leaders, they’re getting to the leaders. And, you know,

Vince Menzione 24:39  

we’re helping. They’re assuming a leadership capacity. And so you

Cassandra Gholston 24:44  

do that inside your organization. Well, guess what? Who’s up for the next promotion? Yeah, right, that’s that’s the up and coming that that we do see in some organizations. But you know, in one company, that and I. Love talking about this company, lumen. I mean, this is a company where the CEO is talking about transformation, yes, Microsoft, right. X, Microsoft, co sell, okay, she gets it. Oh, yeah. And guess who else gets it, the entire team. But you’re transforming an organization that, again, direct, indirect, we don’t really work together and and, you know, they are going through big transformation. They told us that we were their most strategic vendor. That says a lot. It does. I mean, the woman in 2016 that was saying co sell is a thing, I mean. And what they said is, you know, all our partners have a component of CO selling across the board. So you think about that, and you know, they’re lucky they have the change agent from the top down. And so the people inside that organization are are looking for ways to go and transform.

Vince Menzione 26:13  

So I need a leader. I need people that assume leadership roles, whether they be the leader or not, somebody, somebody has to, like Be the change agent in the organization. Yes, I think about Greg Serafin again, because

Cassandra Gholston 26:25  

we, I love him. I just met him yesterday. Yeah, he’s like, but he’s a real deal. Well, he

Vince Menzione 26:29  

was here in that seat telling us what he did at EY amazing. And his role got elevated, because absolutely his role, his role is now at the Vice Chair level, yep, of the organized state global vice chair of EY

Cassandra Gholston 26:43  

so he is Chief partner officer. And I think yesterday, I said, yeah, the chief, the chief partner officer. Everybody’s talking about this new role, the person that takes that role that is a transformation leader, yes, transformational leader that is going to come in and move this new playbook, go to this new playbook of direct LED, to partner LED. And, you know, he’s, he’s, he’s done that, yeah. And I think the numbers that he gave out were, you know, they got to 20% partner LED. Now they’re 4040, 45%

Vince Menzione 27:23  

and the actual numbers were under a billion to ten billion

Cassandra Gholston 27:27  

amazing. Yeah, amazing. This is, yeah. This is the transformation. This is what is possible.

Vince Menzione 27:33  

And that leader also has to be able to speak the language of each of they have to have an influence strategy and be able to speak the language and understand the requirements and the needs and the pains of each of the members of the C suite. Yep, they had this. They had to speak finance, they had to speak marketing, that speak product engineering, right, right? And partner.

Cassandra Gholston 27:52  

And in some cases, it’s not just their C suite. It’s the Partner C suite too, because right, we’re, we’re driving change, not just in our organization, but our partners are leading. So it’s, it’s the the connections over there. So, yes, I love it.

Vince Menzione 28:12  

I love it. I so let’s we’re, I can’t believe we are almost at the halfway point. We’re at the half point, point of 2024, and I was just wishing you had happy new years just a couple weeks ago. Feels like for our viewers and listeners today, what do they need to go do that they maybe haven’t been doing yet? With regards to co selling, what would be your advice for optimizing for success in 2024

Cassandra Gholston 28:37  

Well, I would say to anybody that is operating in this random acts of CO sell, where we’re putting, you know, spreadsheets across the way and, you know, trying to go and action those in a manual fashion. Like, there’s technology for that. There is a way to scale that. But there, you know, I any customer that we’re working with, this is a three, three year transformation journey. There’s a crawl, walk and run, and

Vince Menzione 29:11  

what are the first steps that organizations normally take? So

Cassandra Gholston 29:16  

the first step is really building a program around co selling, and that program needs to be designed around this shared customer, right? This is no longer just my customer. This is our customer. And then we need to incentivize. We need to build incentives that drive collaborative behaviors. And if we don’t have those incentives right from the beginning, well, then the program will fail, right? So you need to be able to speak CFO, right. You need to be able to go and right, talk to them about the incentive programs, that

Vince Menzione 29:57  

is. And you need the investment dollars from the CFO, right? It. Resources and dollars and change in policies and incentives to support the new behavior. Yes,

Cassandra Gholston 30:05  

and then we’re talking about a lot of enablement of my field teams, lot of enablement of my partner’s field teams. I mean, that’s why this is so massive, but very exciting times to you know, see companies that we’ve been working with for now, some are on to four years. And you know, we’ve never lost an enterprise customer. That’s fantastic on the journey. I

Vince Menzione 30:37  

love it. Cassandra, so good. I have one more question, though, okay, you are hosting a dinner party.

Cassandra Gholston 30:44  

Okay? This is a, this is a ringer that you just gave me

Vince Menzione 30:49  

exactly, exactly. I love this. I love to throw these in. Yes, you’re hosting a dinner party. Could host this dinner party anywhere in the world, okay, discuss where you’d want to host it. Like favorite locations, you can invite any three guests to this amazing dinner party from the present or the past. You might, you might have somebody from the past that you want to invite to this amazing dinner party. Whom would you invite and why?

Cassandra Gholston 31:14  

I think that so past. I would definitely, I would want to, I would want to sit at the table with a Gandhi, and then I would also always want to sit at the table with Oprah.

Vince Menzione 31:26  

I love it.

Cassandra Gholston 31:27  

I mean, she was the original female entrepreneur. I love her.

Vince Menzione 31:30  

An influencer. She was an influencer before there was an influencer, right?

Cassandra Gholston 31:34  

And then I just Gandhi. You know, my people lead me like i

Vince Menzione 31:39  

Be the change you wish to see in the world. Absolutely, one of my favorites. Yes. And where are we hosting the party?

Cassandra Gholston 31:46  

Where are we hosting party? That’s a tough one. Could we come to Boca? We can

Vince Menzione 31:50  

come to Boca. We can have a great dinner, like we did at our event on the beach. That was wonderful. People have to come join us for our next big event. Cassandra, you are such an amazing leader. I’m so excited for partner, tap and the journey you’re on. Any final words or closing advice, we talked about quite a few things around co selling today you’d like to share with our listeners and viewers.

Cassandra Gholston 32:10  

I just I just think that companies need to be aware that if you’re not thinking about CO sell transformation, if you’re not starting the journey, just know that your competitors are already either in motion or they they’ve got the plan to be in motion. So way too long. It’s it’s a now. It’s happening. It’s happening. Well,

Vince Menzione 32:37  

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