153 – Janet Schijns, a MASTERCLASS Achieving Your Greatest Results with Ecosystems & Megacosms

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An Iconic Leader Joins Ultimate Guide to Partnering®

For this episode of Ultimate Guide of Partnering®, I was so excited to welcome an amazing Partner, Channel, and Ecosystem leader, Janet Schijns, the CEO of JS Group. Janet and I have a tremendous conversation about the principles of partner channel and ecosystem coaching she is giving technology organizations and partners. In this must-listen episode, Janet Schijns leads a MASTERCLASS achieving your greatest results with Ecosystems & Megacosms.

In Janet’s Words

I have over two decades of experience building, optimizing, and evangelizing channel programs and go-to-market strategies. To my delight, I earned 5-Star Channel Program Awards at Motorola, Verizon, and Cisco EMEA and am the holder of many industry awards. In 2019, I was honored to be named Channel Influencer of the Year by Channel Partners, and Analytics Insights dubbed me both a Top 10 Women in Technology and Top 10 Most Impactful Women in Technology for 2020.

Before JS Group, I served as EVP and CMSO at Office Depot, leading a major transformation to drive traction in IT services. I was the Chief Channel Executive and Chief Marketing Technologist of Verizon Business from 2012 to 2017 and Vice President of Verizon Wireless’ Business Solutions Group from 2010 to 2012. Additionally, I ran the channel organization for Motorola Enterprise and Government.

I am passionate about women’s advancement in the technology and telecommunications channel. In 2017, I founded the not-for-profit organization Tech World’s Half to address the issue of women dropping out of technology. I’ve been lucky enough to coach, mentor, and counsel hundreds of amazing women in the industry to success and am regularly called upon to speak about empowering and advancing women in the technology industry.

What You’ll Learn

  • Her background and the mission of JS Group (2:52)
  • Helping organizations toward commitment (6:31)
  • Trends – Channels, Ecosystems, Megacosms, and Marketing (9:33)
  • Influence vs. Transaction (18:29)
  • What does she see in the best partnership & ecosystem strategies? (23:39)
  • The Channel Tech Stack (29:46)
  • Janet’s Career Journey (32:24)

Why Listen?

We have seen rapid and sustained transformation for two years. Technology is transforming every company and industry, and we will never go back. Janet is a prolific leader in the channel, partner, and ecosystem world and works with some of the biggest names in technology. Janet shares how she is coaching vendors and partners, the move to Megacosms, what she sees from the best, and where organizations struggle.

WARNING – This episode is exclusively for leaders who care about partner ecosystems, the evolution of selling and the systems driving this next phase of economic growth, and how this “Decade of the Ecosystem” looks to take shape. You will hear Janet’s view on how organizations need to think and move differently during this rapidly changing digital economy.

I hope you enjoy this discussion as much as I enjoyed welcoming Janet Schijns as a guest on Ultimate Guide to Partnering®.

Quote From This Episode

“What a great time. Now is the time to challenge your status quo. It’s time to not look in the rearview mirror and instead look in the front-facing windshield. And think about what needs to change. Change takes a long time in the Ecosystem, the Megacosm, and the Channel, whatever you want to call it, change takes time!”

Episodes featuring Partner Ecosystem Leaders and Experts.

150- Celebrating 150 Amazing Episodes with a Five-Timer Guest, Jay McBain

149 – WTF is an Ecosystem? And How Partner Hacker helps tech companies PartnerUp with Jared Fuller

139 – How Can Technology Partners Organize for Success around Go to Ecosystems? with Allan Adler.

132 – How to Achieve Your Greatest Results in 2022 – Part Two – Ecosystems with Jay McBain.

136 – How Can Partners Achieve Their Greatest Results Through Marketplaces? With Jake Swenson, VP of Microsoft.

116 – Helping ISVs Accelerate Meaningful Revenue with the Cloud Providers through Marketplaces with Sanjay Mehta of Tackle.io 115 – Creating Value to Innovative Routes-to-Market with Precise Industry and Customer Solutions – with Oguo Atuanya, Microsoft GM for Scale Partners.

114 – Cloud Wars Ranks the Most Influential Cloud Vendors During This Rapid Transformation – with Bob Evans, creator of Cloud Wars

Our Sponsors

Resources

We are so excited to welcome Athletic Greens as our latest sponsor. My daily ritual has included a “green drink” supplement for over 20 years ago. AG1 is packed with 75 high-quality vitamins, minerals, whole-food sourced superfoods, probiotics, and adaptogens. If you’d like to join me, give AG1 a try. Athletic Greens is giving away a free one-year supply of Vitamin D and Five Travel Packs with every new purchase. Check them out at athleticgreens.com/vincem

PartnerTap is the Founding Sponsor of Ultimate Guide to Partnering. PartnerTap is the only Partner Ecosystem Platform designed for the Enterprise. Their technology makes it easy to align Channel Teams with automated account mapping, letting you control what data you share while building a partner revenue engine.

Transcription – by Otter.ai – Expect Typos

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

channel, partner, people, organizations, influencer, technology, influence, sell, world, leaders, trend, mega, ceo, chasm, customer, market, vendors, cfo, solution, sales

SPEAKERS

Announcer, Janet Schijns, Vince Menzione

Janet Schijns  00:00

Now’s the time to challenge your status quo. It’s the time to not look in the rearview mirror and instead, look in the front facing windshield. And think about what needs to change change takes a long time in the ecosystem, the mega chasm and the channel, whatever you want to call it change takes time.

Announcer  00:17

Welcome to The Ultimate Guide to partnering in this podcast Vince Menzione. A proven industry sales and partner executive brings together technology leaders to discuss transformational trends and to deconstruct successful strategies to thrive and survive in the rapid age of cloud transformation. And now your host, Vince Menzione.

Vince Menzione  00:41

Welcome to or welcome back to The Ultimate Guide to partnering where technology leaders come to optimize results through successful partnering. I’m Vince Menzione, your host and my mission is to help leaders like you unlock the leadership principles and learnings of the best in the business to get partnerships right, optimize for success and deliver your greatest results. I channeled ecosystem and mega chasm icon takes us on a masterclass to optimizing your greatest results partnering. For this next episode of ultimate guide to partnering. I was so excited to welcome Janet shine, the CEO of JSW group, and a person who’s been a leader in the channel for many years, Janet and I have a tremendous conversation on principles of success and coaching she is giving to organizations and how to achieve your greatest results through ecosystems and mega chasms. This is a must listen episode. And I hope you enjoy this amazing conversation as much as I enjoyed welcoming Janet shine. Before we dive into the interview, I’m happy to announce that partner tap has become a founding sponsor of ultimate guide to partnering partner tap is the only partner ecosystem platform designed for the enterprise. Their technology makes it easy to align channel teams with automated account mapping, letting you control what data you share while building a partner revenue engine. Janet, welcome to the podcast.

Janet Schijns  02:17

Hey, great to be here.

Vince Menzione  02:19

I am so excited to finally welcome you as a guest on Ultimate Guide to Partnering. You’re an icon in this world of partnerships, channels and ecosystems. And your name comes up all the time in conversations. You’re the CEO of your own successful organization. You’ve been at Channel chief at some very major tech companies. So I am really excited for this conversation today.

Janet Schijns  02:43

So am I really excited. So for the one

Vince Menzione  02:46

or two of our listeners who might not know Janet, can you tell us a little bit more about you?

Janet Schijns  02:52

Yes. And if you don’t know me, for goodness sakes, connect with me on LinkedIn or something so that we get to know each other. I pride myself on knowing everyone in the industry. So if it’s not true, I’ll be brokenhearted. I, as you mentioned, had been the channel chief it’s a major companies Verizon as a good example Motorola enterprise, and a senior leader at Fortune 500 companies, including Office Depot. And my claim to fame has always been around the successful creation of what back in the day was partnerships today as ecosystems and is currently moving towards when I can only call nega Kazam, myself and the team at JSW group are all people who have carried the bag done the work been there been held responsible by the board or the operating committee or the CEO or the CFO and understand what is a good go to market both direct and indirect. How do those two survive and live together in the world? What’s the true role of a good healthy partnership? And how does a partner experience drive growth for companies, we also understand the partner side of the business and work exclusively with many of the top partners in the industry to help them go and get the demand that all the vendors want them to get. And in fact, just in 2021 alone, we developed more than $1.4 billion in revenue. Working with partners and partner marketing programs, we really feel that we’re we’ve got our finger on the pulse in the channel that the vendors suppliers, carriers, wherever you want to call yourselves today know as well as the one that partners know and many times they’re not the same channels. So we pride ourselves on being able to bring those two viewpoints together and get progress for both sides of the house.

Vince Menzione  04:33

Partnerships are two organizations coming together coming from opposite sides often and I love what you have to say in particular about having carried the bag bin in the hard conversations at the board and executive level because I think that many people miss that that this isn’t always easy street and partnerships can be hard at times.

Janet Schijns  04:54

It’s hard and and harder when especially in today’s environment. You’ve got investors who have put money in and are demanding certain growth and many times are asking to do things that are not good for the long term success of your channel partners. And so that’s why JSW group has a mission. And we have a very simple three word mission statement. And it’s saved the channel. So in everything we do we really focus on is what we’re doing good for the channel as well as good for vendor, distributor, supplier, etc. And many times you get leaders, particularly if you’ve carried the bag, this you’re probably nodding along right now, you get leaders in the company, I don’t want to pick on the CFOs. But a lot of times it’s the CFO, or it’s big consulting firm, right? The PwC Accenture’s, Deloitte to the world who have put something on a spreadsheet or a slide that sounds so simple, reduce the cost to channel, lower commissions, cut unproductive partners, etc, etc. sounds so simple. And in the channel, the simple answer is always wrong. That person who’s carrying the bag who’s the channel leader, who’s the channel chief is just constantly facing this battering, I don’t know that the partners always realize that they’re constantly facing this battering from someone in the company who believes that they have a way that could improve their costs or improve performance that may or may not be valid. And so I used to laugh that I was like a human umbrella that my number one role when I was at Verizon was I had this huge umbrella. And my job was to keep all the bullshit from coming down and actually hitting the channel. And that’s the reality.

Vince Menzione  06:31

It’s a hard job, it is a really hard job. And you reminded me of that CFO conversation. It’s so funny that the point of view that they often have, it’s almost like an appendage to the organization. It’s not integrated in the organization. Yes, that lack commitment, like how do you help organizations get over that lack of commitment?

Janet Schijns  06:50

That’s amazing. It’s such a great question. And I just had what could only be referred to as a polite argument with an organization just last week, and one of the things that’s really interesting is, we have these senior leaders who have for their company, at least been able to bend the will of a market, many of them have been creators, founders, or they are from early on. And so they believe that they can bend the will of the channel. And so that’s the first hurdle I have to get over when I’m trying to convince a senior leader that perhaps their view of the channel is a misguided one. So the first thing is to say, look, I cannot change what the norm is in the channel, and neither can you. And you can grouse about a complaint about it, be upset about it, I’m going to show you why it actually works, I’m going to show you why the numbers that you put together may not be fully reflective of the true costs of each route to market. And we’re going to talk about what the most logical routes to market are and what changes you can make within the confines of what the real operating model of a channel is. And a lot of times that helps people to start to think oh, so in other words, two things can exist in complete disagreement. You can be unhappy about, for example, how much you have to pay a commission and an agent channel or discount or resale channel. But if that’s the percentage that’s being done in the industry right now, and you don’t have a differentiator that’s above and beyond that causes people to be okay, taking less money, because maybe they make services etc. You have to come first to that reality that you can’t change the fabric of the channel by yourself. Yeah, bending

Vince Menzione  08:27

the will. It comes up in so many ways, too, right? Not just there. But also with organizations. I work a lot with ISV organizations, and they’re trying to make their impact working with hyperscalers like Microsoft, Google and Amazon. And they think because they built a better mousetrap that they should just run to their door. And they don’t understand that those organizations have their own set of objectives and compensation models and

Janet Schijns  08:52

a better mousetrap often never even gets in the cart. Exactly is the reality. They have their own organizations, their mores, their own rules, quite frankly, there’s what a couple 100,000 ISPs moving to a million ISPs. If we listen to our research from our dear friend Jamie McBain, yes. And so with a million variations, there’s only so many things on the channels, whether I’m a hyper scalar part of that ecosystem or whether I’m a down market partner, so there’s so much I can sell anyway, or put on my platform or promote or care about. And so that arrogance that along the one you’re going to pick is often very misguided.

Vince Menzione  09:33

You bring up our good friend Jay McBain and I was gonna ask you a little bit about some of the trends and Jay was just on recently he’s a five time are now an ultimate guide to partnering. He’s getting a robe. And hopefully we’ll have you here five times so you can join. Absolutely. I’d love that when you come back down here to Florida. We’ll do that. But I’d love your view on some of these trends. I just had recently had one of Microsoft’s ISP ecosystem leaders on Talking, we talked about the 180,000 going to a million ISPs, and how do you support that? But what are some of the trends you’ve been seeing? The first

Janet Schijns  10:08

trend, all I always talk about, is that there’s always news that the channels in trouble struggling, whatever, whatever, it’s always wrong. So the first thing I always like to say when I talk about trends is the channel route to market is still a very viable one, right? It’s still the majority of how tech companies go to market. And that’s an important trend, because you do hear some rumble in the ISP and hyperscalers visa, particularly that, hey, maybe the channel will be as relevant. And so I think it’s just an evolution of what channel will be relevant as opposed to kind of a wholesale Oh, we won’t need them anymore. And everybody’s just going to click to buy because that’s not true. And so I always want to start my trend by saying any rumors of the channels demise have been greatly exaggerated. The channel is a very viable route to market, the way that you look at your route to market sell, through sell, to sell with needs to evolve, to understand that we’re moving from what was a channel to an ecosystem to a mega Kazam. And if you look at the definition of a mega chasm, a mega chasm is multiple microcosms operating in a way that is mutually beneficial to the mega chasm. And that’s where we’re at clients are going to have hundreds of software’s hundreds of kinds of devices, endpoint units, millions of connections, and in that mega chasm of their technology, they’re going to need multi threaded partners who are able to if you will almost dance together in tempo, to make sure that their technology works for them. So that’s kind of the first big trend I’m seeing is this trend of the need for mutually beneficial partnerships? And you might say, well, we’ve always had that that’s not a trend. It’s not true, that it has been a very adversarial, very, in many instances, very siloed. Right, the channel chief loves their partners, but not so sure about the rest of the or how they feel about the partners. That’s the first thing that that careful integration, that that belief that you’re what you’re doing in the mega chasm along with everyone else is going to benefit ultimately the end user customer, and doing it in a way that has a positive outcome. That’s the first big trend I’m seeing. And it’s really changing how people are looking at their partner programs so that in that world, then a tiered program that has evolved to say the more you sell, the more rewards we’ll give you heck, we’ll even Hydra from the cops. If you’re selling enough, that falls that triangle falls completely implodes in the world that we’re in because it needs to be more about the functionality of the relationship, and not so much about the rear view metrics of certification or revenue or others. So that’s kind of that first mega trend I’m seeing.

Vince Menzione  12:55

I want to comment here, if you don’t mind. I see this all the times in organizations where you have the channel organization and the Alliance’s organization, that the same company not reporting into the same lines up to the CEO and almost competing for resources. Yes. So you hit a really strong point for me in terms of what I see in organizations as well. And they’re not cohesive in terms of going after the market.

Janet Schijns  13:18

They’re not they don’t get it. And they somehow have decided that even if direct sales is a smaller portion of how they go to market, direct sales is somehow preferential somehow better, somehow, there’s, and the channel is not theirs. And this this idea of owner possessiveness in the ecosystem, I think it’s a big red flag that those are the folks who don’t want to work with. And those antiquated approaches to how you think about the channel are really backwards, in fact that we just launched a program with a vendor of an NDA. So I can’t say who it is. But we are launching a program with them. And the direct team will have to register their deals and have them approved by the channel team. I love it I love as opposed to the channel team being approved by the directing some person who’s at a college for two years is somehow saying no, that’s my account when the partner fill in the account for 35 years. So they’re going to flip that one around, they want to be primarily channel centric. If you want to be primarily channel centric, then channels your lead in sales, and they should be approving your deals and deciding who they want to work with. And so it’s going to be I think it’s going to be a bit of a of an implosion internally for them to push that through. But that’s been our recommendation and that’s the kinds of trends I’m seeing. The other trend I’m seeing which I do want to talk about is marketing is now eating sales in the channel proper right because the channel did start now we have this channel where the channel has influence and non transacting right at this mega Kazam has grown. But the original intent of the channel that still runs a thread through this mega chasm is sales is revenue right? It is closing deals and in the past, what the channel brought that made them valuable was a sales prowess. Right and ability to either get in front of a customer or they had the customer had a relationship with whoever at the customer that they went to school with or whatever. But now we’re seeing a world because of digital, because of so much being done hybrid virtual remote. We’re seeing a world now where marketing just eats sales. And so the partners who have for a long time lived on that promise of their sales, people quickly starting to have problems and we’re seeing vendors ISVs, that everybody in the mega chasm that distribute something a solution down. They’re making excuses for partners. They’re saying, Oh, this is happening, or that’s happening. And the reality is, what’s happening is those partners are being out marketed. That vendor that ISP is being out marketed. And in a world where we have digital natives now is a large portion of our employees and staff and decision makers. That’s the biggest trend that I see coming, is this concept of how do you really help and invest? And make sure that your partners are genius marketers, and that you’re not replaced by someone who is with a different solution?

Vince Menzione  16:07

Yeah, it’s all on the influence strategy. Right? I’m listening to the five seats at the table, I’m getting influenced by various forms of digital marketing, in fact, right to your point, if you’re not doing it, right to influence me, I’m going someplace else,

Janet Schijns  16:22

the hugs and mugs that have long been a cornerstone channel, they just don’t work. Now, right there. It’s different now. It’s changed down. So when we’re looking at Partners and saying for a vendor or supplier who’s the best partner, we’re looking at things like worth of web and we’re going out, we’re saying how much is their website value grown in the last three years? What hasn’t? It’s declined. Well, guess what, this is a partner who is a risk for you to invest in. Unless you help them fix their website, their search engine optimization, their social selling their digital marketing, there are risks, because in this digitized age, your worth of your website should not be declining. It’s a red flag. And so we’re really working with not only existing programs, but new programs to redefine what a good partner looks like. And one of those traits of a good partner in this environment that we’re in is this capability to do digital marketing, influence social selling, to be able to meet customers where they are, which is on the glowing rectangle, their screen.

Vince Menzione  17:25

Exactly. I’m so excited to welcome athletic greens as the latest sponsor to ultimate guide to partnering friends who know me well know I’ve made taking a green drink supplement part of my health ritual for over 20 years now. And it has made all the difference to my health and well being about five years ago, I added athletic greens and now their product ag one has become my go to green drink supplement. I take this literally every single day. Ag one is packed with 75, high quality vitamins, minerals, Whole Foods source superfoods, probiotics and antigens. If you’d like to give ag one a try athletic greens is giving away a free one year supply of vitamin D, and five travel packs with every new purchase, check them out at athletic greens.com forward slash Vince M. So talk to me about influence because some people believe that influence will drive no transaction will no longer be a play. And it’s all going to be about influence. What do you think there?

Janet Schijns  18:40

I think that’s a yes, no, no, I think that more and more this because of this concept again of the mega cousin, right, where you have multiple parties, they all have a role to play. And their goal is to have a beneficial outcome for the client, the industry, right whatever project they’re working on, I think in that role someone has to sell. So influence is going to be masterfully important and we only have to think about one specific influence to see this. So the influence now that the marketing technology firms that sell ecommerce work on websites do email marketing, search engine optimization, Search Engine Marketing, etc. The influence they have on the technology purchases of their clients has risen massively right brick and mortar is declining website traffic is increasing digital commerce is increasing. The provider who does your digital commerce is a major influencer for which technology you pick, they’re going to help pick what contact center you have, right? They’re going to help pick the speed of your network that you need collaboration tools, they’re going to be a big influencer, they’re likely not going to sell it, right because they have a different thing they do. They’re creative, they’re digital, but we’re seeing that sphere of influence very important. We’re also seeing the sphere of influence of who people read. You talk to listen to by industry think of John nostale use him as my example, John Nasta in the healthcare industry, right he is. He’s the guy everybody listens to about technology in healthcare industries phenomenal. If you don’t follow him, all of you should look him up. He’s a major influencer and his voice, right around trends around the right technology, etc. It’s not like a Beyonce shampoo influence, right? When I’m talking about a paid ad placement, we’re talking about the education of those influencers, to understand your solutions and understand what you’re doing, you may very well pay them for some level of engagement with you to understand that. But using that, and using that influence is massive, and finding those people that are the influencers for your ultimate customer segment. That’s the game. And I think finally, many channel chiefs, many CEOs of channel firms, etc. all think that they don’t need to have that kind of influence. Somebody in their company can run social media, and it’ll be fine. And they could not be further from the truth, your voice what you say and do online, your digital footprint is really important not just to your channel, or your customers, but also to your internal employees, who 75% are millennial or Gen Z right now in quote unquote, corporate America, that’s where they consume their ideas, their news, their thoughts. And so if you’re not an influencer there, you’re going to lose that stickiness in your culture that makes people want to follow you as a leader. And so we’re working a lot at J. S group, we have a social influence program, we train people how to do social selling, how to stand up the right persona. And for many people, we actually do that for them. We do that work for those senior leaders, and we’ve had a lot of influencer of the year winners who have been our clients. And so we’ve got a little secret sauce there. But it is something that leaders have to concentrate on as well. It’s not just for your marketing.

Vince Menzione  21:56

So important. So often, the CEO and the executive team hides behind the corporate brand, and lets that be the voice of the company. And I see if in the best the best CEOs, and I’ll use an example a good friend of mine, Tony Savoy, and the CEO of SADA Systems, he’s out in front, he’s out in front of some controversial topics, sometimes, he’s also talking about what’s happening in the economy and how he’s treating his employees. And he’s projecting this out to the entire ecosystem through LinkedIn, Twitter and other channels. Right and right, that’s, that’s the way you want to be today. In today’s environment,

Janet Schijns  22:32

that is exactly how you want to be. And that’s how new leaders get tapped to right there. Like if people are not Broadway play aficionados, I apologize for this. But there’s a scene in Wicked, which is kind of a famous Broadway play. And the scene is about what was the most common thing that all the leaders in the past have had in common? And one person says it was it they were smart, or they were talented. And the singer says no, they were popular. And I think we sometimes as geeks in the tech industry, forget that concept. They were popular. And so what he’s doing right, what the scientists have some CEO is doing is having a view, having a point of view doesn’t need to be necessarily wildly controversial. But having a point of view, standing his ground standing for things, talking right in a human voice, not in corporate speak, really makes all the difference. And those are the kinds of leaders that are popular that people follow. And I see folks like Heather Murray, who just is a great influencer for women in the tech industry, right? That level of influence that level of leadership that can’t be that really and truly cannot be duplicated.

Vince Menzione  23:39

So important. So important here, you’ve touched on a couple of great points here. But what are the things do you think makes a great partnership organization or ecosystem strategy for an organization?

Janet Schijns  23:50

I think so a couple things. The first one is talent does matter. So having the best channel leader that your ecosystem leader, whatever you want to call them, that you can afford, is really important, trying to cut corners and saying, oh, you know what, one time Tim, sold something with a partner. And I know he’s the CTO, but we’re thinking he’d make a good channel chief, is really not a good way to go about it. So I always tell everybody get help, right? And if you can’t afford a full time channel, Chief, there’s firms like mine and others who can serve as fractional channel chiefs for you. But that leadership is one of the most important things. The second thing is understanding what your routes to market are. So what rounds to market do you every solution is different, right? Are you going through a marketplace? Are you going to be sell to and a resale model? Are you going to be sell through an agent model are you going to be sell with and a closed sale model? What are the routes to market they’re going to work for your customers and what are the costs inherent in those and the support inherent knows the people you need and the programs that you need? What does that look like falling out of love with the rearview mirror staffing of things and actually Having a plan for how you’re going to you’re going to have not only your program, but how your program is going to be supported. And then I would say the third thing is really mapping then that partner experience, right? What is the partner experience? What is a partner, whether they’re an influencer or a non transacting partner or transacting partner, whatever those models are that you support? What are their experience going to be? And how do you make it as simple as possible. And then, as a company, dirty, have a channel, do the simple thing. First, do the simplest thing first, you can do for the biggest impact, prove to the channel, you’re doing something, I always like to use examples. And as a Verizon, we just couldn’t get out of our own ways with commission. And it was always wrong. And the partner would submit a commission change, hey, you guys are wrong. And we’ve researched it for 60 days and 99.9 times out of 100, the partner was always right. And so I finally just said to our CFO with what if we just let them tell us what we owe them. And then we’ll audit it would not be better, like simple thing to do biggest impact, because they all hate us, because their checks always late. And we signed off on that. And our partner satisfaction went through the roof. And it was a simple thing to do for the biggest impact. So that’s kind of the final thing. I always tell people, once you’ve decided what your channel strategy is, you want your program to look like you’re not a metal triangle thing, right? We’re in a more circular world now, a little more interdependency than that. And then they’ll just make a list of the stuff who’s already comes up with 100 things, and then just prioritize them. What’s the smallest thing I could do for the biggest impact is do that. Just like do that the partners are pretty understanding. And if you start delivering some benefit to them, they’re gonna, it’s gonna go a lot farther for you to make changes that you need, you’re gonna get a lot more open and honest dialogue. We tend

Vince Menzione  26:40

to try to analyze the term game things, but we try to overcomplicate things. Yeah. Technology, like, why do I need to have to go to this site to pull down your data sheets? And register a deal? Can we make this easier?

Janet Schijns  26:53

And then go to this other site and do this? And then oh, wait, hang on, I gotta spin around three times to the GM five minutes and then hop on a foot and then put it in the other system? What we do to our partners, we would never do to our people. Exactly. That’s always my kind of Anthem. Would you do this to your own people,

Vince Menzione  27:11

you just struck a chord on the talent matters and the leadership discussion too. And so many times I find that people and I, this is firsthand, right, having LED channel organizations and an organization at Microsoft for a decade, they weren’t we liked them, they weren’t as good in sales. But with people liked them, customers liked them. So we’re gonna move over here to the channel. Right? Like they’re underperformers, they’re underperformers and you want me to take them on, I want the top sellers in my channel or my partner organization and should have

Janet Schijns  27:41

the top people because the channel quite frankly, as this mega Kazim gets bigger and bigger and bigger and also gets unsustainable for a single brand. And what the vendors sometimes just say vendors, you can call yourself whoever you want provider ISP, they forget they lose track of this concept that when you walk in, you’re representing ABC Cove, you’re representing ABC tell us all you can sell. When the partner walks in and represents ABC, CO the customer knows that the partner can sell anything, and they’ve chosen to represent you. So you must be the best of the best. And I think somehow we’ve lost a little bit of track of that if the partner is perceived more positively by the customer, why you wouldn’t have the best people in the partner, community support teams I don’t get

Vince Menzione  28:33

and the complexity of you’re not just managing a sales territory, you are managing a group of partners, you’re managing business plans build exactly co selling plans, right it’s there’s a lot more complex

Janet Schijns  28:45

and complicated world and then we always put the channel team a little bit on their back foot or at least not good channel organizations, put them on their back foot of having to defend the channel all the time. And so great organizations get top talented people, they cease all of the practices that complicate their channel with the defend the channel moves, right overly complicated deal registration, overly complicated rules of engagement. They simplify stuff and say look, we’re comfortable with the channel being in the driver’s seat and we’re clear about it and if we have blocked accounts or or anything else we’re clear about it we communicate right up front Hey, guess what you can’t sell to right period and the story and they win fans and business because of it the others who are innocuous and they have all this beauty, beauty language and you can’t really even understand what their program is and they’re so complicated that you can’t work through it. There’s other options. People just are walking away from those folks.

Vince Menzione  29:46

I love it. You’ve laid out a masterclass here, I can’t wait to go back and transcribe this interview and get some of this out to the world. Really Janet, this is sort of thing I want to talk to you about we talked about the technology stack a little bit we talked It started and our good friend Jay is tracking it. So what do you think about all this partnership automation that’s going on? And are we in fact going to see the same thing in the partner world that we saw in the marketing world with the evolution of that stack?

Janet Schijns  30:13

I think so. Yeah, I think so I think, listen, there’s firms that are automating bad processes. And so then they blame the automation, which is just very silly, you have to get your process, you have to get your shit channel strategy, right, you have to get things right. And then you pick the partner automation and tech stack that’s working for you. Now I think we’re going to see more and more consolidation of particularly things like PRM systems, we’re gonna see more and more of a consolidation of those and new entrants that are saying, Look, this kind of bifurcated way we’ve looked at partner relationship management has changed. And so in the when the in the mega Kazam, or at ecosystem, wherever your particular lenses on the industry, automating is a little more difficult, a little more challenging. And so we’re seeing these kind of born in the cloud solutions now that were not brought up as pure PRM systems, and are more about focusing on the end user customer outcome. And they’re starting to take some hold, and people are starting to use them, people are starting to implement them. So I think we’re going to see not only a consolidation, but I think we’re going to see some new solutions come into the market and surprise people with how simple they are for multiple partners to work a deal together. And that truly to me is the next level in this decade of the microcosm.

Vince Menzione  31:36

What do you predict? Do you think it’ll be stitching together a bunch of point solutions to solve or an Uber best of breed solution?

Janet Schijns  31:44

I think it’s going to be more than now a bunch of point solutions. Over time, somebody’s going to consolidate those point solutions and put them in a single pane of glass Uber solution. But I don’t think that happens quickly. Because if there’s one thing the technology industry and the channel is it’s complicated. Yeah,

Vince Menzione  32:00

I agree with you there as well. And I think that there’ll be some you pointed out consolidation, right. So I think there’ll be opportunities for acquisition of some of these technologies over time. And that might be their strategy all along, coming out. Yes, I agree. So this has been a fascinating conversation. And I already am and I’m gonna invite you back. We got to because there’s so much more I want to talk to you about, we could spend hours and hours here

Janet Schijns  32:21

and oh, yeah, we got a lot to unpack. You wanna?

Vince Menzione  32:24

Yeah, but I want to save some of that for our next time together. And I also want to focus on you and your career. As you might know, I’m fascinated with the career journey. I’ve been a big advocate for women and technology and an ally. And so I’d love for you to share with our listeners, like you have had an amazing career when I look back at your LinkedIn, just prolific. Tell us more about your journey. And was there a pivot point or something that propelled you along the way to your success seemed interesting,

Janet Schijns  32:54

So interesting. A couple things. I think there’s never a straight answer. I went to school, I went to college for finance, I was going to trade Euro dollars and work on Wall Street. And when I got there, it was hideous, and I hated it. And so my boss at the time sent me to go to L’Oreal, Lancome cosmetics and work there and their marketing team. He said I knew somebody there, you’d love it there. And while I was there, IBM came in early day WebSphere kind of stuff. And they just botched the presentation. And I wasn’t going to get what I needed. And so I helped them redo the presentation. And they were a channel partner for IBM. Thus the channel career was born. What the propelling moment when I said this, the channel this is for me was truly then was seeing that this channel partner had the right solution, have the answers knew our business, the thing I saw was they couldn’t put it on paper, they couldn’t present it, they went into geekspeak. And so I spent my first round in the channel, I have my own consulting firm and really helped clients with their go to market, both partners and vendors of saying what are you saying no one understands you. And so that really just cemented my love of the channel, and started working in channel programs and channel marketing and then ultimately sold my first rendition of JSW group to Motorola as part of the whole symbol acquisition and went in there to lead their enterprise channel. And so that moment of saying, Look at this there is somebody that knows how to do what I as a business leader need just made me fall in love with the channel and I don’t think it’s ever changed. Now that’s kind of the high level, the lower level and I always talk about women in leadership has been at many times it was a very lonely journey. I was the only woman in a meeting I was the only woman at an event I was the only woman Speaker I was the only woman leader and so there were a lot of times where it was difficult to want to keep going because you didn’t feel like you belonged and I did feel like I belonged when I was at L’Oreal Lancome because there was a whole bunch of people like me, right females and so it was difficult and there were times where and I always very honest about it. There were times where my husband who said, lovely human. And he’s also had a very great career picked me up at the airport in tears. So and I still remember he drove one night, but one in the morning to pick me up and then drive me to my next thing, which was two hours away rather than a car service because he just knew I was wrong enough that I could make the wrong decision. It was just it was tough. And I never want to lie to women that are listening to say, Oh, look at her. She was so successful. She made it to the C suite. She’s on boards. She had a just look at that amazing journey. It must have been so easy. She was so lucky. I wasn’t lucky. I was a hard worker, I have thick skin. And I wasn’t afraid to have some tough conversations. And it still was lonely and very difficult.

Vince Menzione  35:43

Was there a best piece of advice along the way?

Janet Schijns  35:47

Yes. So some people don’t know this. But I did a bunch of consulting for Intel, and was adopted a little bit by Andy Grove, who gave me a lot of great advice. So I’m gonna give piece of advice. Yeah, he was fabulous, kind of a quasi mentor. And he said, The thing that always struck me was he said that you can’t be afraid of your opinion, even when people tell you, you’re wrong. And while you don’t want to be seen as somebody who overly stand your ground, don’t let people push you off your ground too soon. And that was the statement. Don’t let people push you off your ground too soon for your right, stick your ground. And in the channel. That couldn’t be better advice. Because there’s always somebody telling you, you’re wrong. We you the channel leader, always whether it’s just, oh, whether it’s your head of sales, whether it’s your partners, whatever it is, somebody’s always telling you, you’re wrong. And you got to stand your ground a little bit. And that’s harder. I hate to say it, but it’s true. It’s harder for women than it is for guys. And so I hope that I’ve shown that demonstrated that my career and conservatives are role models, somebody who needs to stand their ground right now.

Vince Menzione  36:54

Stand your ground, and Andy Grove Wow, only the Paranoid Survive. What

Janet Schijns  36:59

am I right? Yeah, yeah, he was a great he was an amazing leader.

Vince Menzione  37:03

So many great things came out of Intel, including OKRs John Doerr is work as well. I want to have a little fun with you today. Okay, this is like a favorite question of mine. I get to ask this almost all of my guests. So you’re hosting a dinner party, and you can invite any three guests to this amazing dinner party from the present or the past. And I don’t know if you’re gonna host it here in beautiful Florida or up in beautiful New Jersey, where you are right now. Who would you invite? Whom would you invite to this party? And why?

Janet Schijns  37:33

So I always when somebody asked me a question like this, I always want to go with the gut easy answer, right? Which would be my mom, my dad, my sister, because they’ve I’ve lost them all. And so it would be wonderful to have one more dinner with them. But that’s not the funny answer. So my fun answer would be Darth Vader.

Vince Menzione  37:50

Vader. That’s a first for me.

Janet Schijns  37:52

Yeah. Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker and Kylo Ren would be who I would of course, they’re fictional characters. But those of you who know me know, I’m a massive Star Wars fan. So I probably would love to do something like that a Star Wars dinner would be my most fun dinner party. And amazing because I’m such a Star Wars geek.

Vince Menzione  38:12

I love it. I love it. It’s so different than what I expected to hear from you today. Certainly your mom, and certainly your mom, dad and sister. I’d love to have them join as well. And I’m going to I’m going to stop by

Janet Schijns  38:23

I would my sister would be laughing at me. But my mom and dad were very tolerant of my sci fi this.

Vince Menzione  38:28

So and I’ll come by with a bottle of wine. Is that all right with you? What?

Janet Schijns  38:33

Yeah, it would be awesome. That would be great.

Vince Menzione  38:35

Terrific. Janet, you have been so amazing, and so much fun to be with today. For our listeners. And in closing advice. This is an important time for us in this channel and ecosystem world. Any advice for these wonderful listeners today?

Janet Schijns  38:49

Now’s the time to challenge your status quo. It’s the time to not look in the rearview mirror and instead look in the front facing windshield. And think about what needs to change. Change takes a long time in the ecosystem, the mega chasm and the channel, whatever you want to call it. Change takes time. And so you really need to step back, get some outside views talk to Vince and I we can both give you some outside views, get some outside views, consider what needs to change, consider what your bedrocks are that will never change and start executing on those changes. You cannot wait any longer for the changes that need to happen.

Vince Menzione  39:27

I love what you had to say here. Janet, thanks so much for joining us today.

Janet Schijns  39:31

Thanks for having me.

Vince Menzione  39:33

As with each of my episodes, I appreciate your support. Please subscribe on your favorite platform, like comment, tell your friends about Ultimate Guide to partnering and where they can find us and I’d love your feedback. Please like the podcast and provide comments or reach out to me at Vince Menzione on LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. You can also like and follow Ultimate Guide to partnering on our Facebook page or drop me a line Vin Sam at ultimate dash partnerships.com This episode of the podcast is sponsored by partner tap the partner ecosystem platform most trusted by enterprise, drive more revenue with your partners and learn more at partner tap.com.

Announcer  40:19

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of The Ultimate Guide to partnering with your host Vince Menzione online at Ultimate Guide to partnering.com and facebook.com/ultimate Guide to partnering. We’ll catch you next time on The ultimate guide to partnering

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